“There are phenomena that have been witnessed by multiple people that are just inexplicable by the science available to us.”
House Oversight UAP Hearing - November 13, 2024
- Date
- 13 Nov 2024
- Venue
- House Oversight Subcommittees on Cybersecurity, IT, and Government Innovation and on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs
- Language
- en
- Status
- Extracted
490
statements
30
speakers
15
entities mentioned
Speakers
30 speakers, A to ZAdmiral GallaudetRear Admiral3 statementsAndy BiggsRepresentative4 statementsAndy OglesRepresentative7 statementsBiggsRepresentative12 statementsDaniel GoldChief Growth Officer2 statementsDr. GallaudetRear Admiral29 statementsElizondoFormer Government Official5 statementsEric BurlisonU.S. Congressman14 statementsGallaudetRear Admiral9 statementsGarciaRepresentative10 statementsGlenn GrothmanU.S. Congressman37 statementsGoldChief Growth Officer4 statementsJared MoskowitzRepresentative30 statementsLuis ElizondoFormer Government Official79 statementsMichael GoldChief Growth Officer26 statementsMichael Shellenberger34 statementsMr. ElizondoFormer Government Official13 statementsMr. GarciaRepresentative26 statementsMr. GoldChief Growth Officer1 statementMr. HigginsU.S. Representative13 statementsMr. Shellenberger21 statementsMr. TimmonsU.S. Congressman1 statementMs. Boebert15 statementsMs. Mace5 statementsNancy Mace34 statementsShellenberger1 statementTim BurchettRepresentative17 statementsTim GallaudetRear Admiral24 statements
Unknown Speaker1 statement
William TimmonsU.S. Congressman13 statementsTranscript
490 statements, in transcript orderEach entry is one claim, quoted word for word. These are extracted statements, not the full record: the original document has everything.
- 001
- 002
“nonhuman intelligence exists, nonhuman intelligence has been interacting with humanity. This interaction is not new and has been ongoing, and they're unelected people in the government that are aware of that.”
- 003
“there are certain individuals who did not want this hearing to happen because they feared what might be disclosed.”
- 004
“Some of the testimony you will hear them deliver today does not reflect well on influential individuals and agencies within the U.S. Federal Government and, perhaps, some of our contractors.”
- 005
“This hearing is intended to help Congress and the American people to learn the extent of the programs and activities our government has engaged in with respect to UAPs and what knowledge it has yielded. This includes, of course, any knowledge of extraterrestrial life or technology of nonhuman origin.”
- 006
“If government-funded research on UAPs has not yielded any useful knowledge, we also need to know those facts. Taxpayers deserve to know how much has been invested. How much has been spent? They should not be kept in the dark to spare the Pentagon a little bit of embarrassment.”
- 007
“The Pentagon has failed six consecutive audits. In fact, it has never actually passed one.”
- 008
“Adding to this is a runaway, overclassification of documents and materials, and reluctance to declassify materials when appropriate, and, at times, an outright refusal to share critical information with Congress.”
- 009
“Congress has tried in recent years to lift the veil and find out if information about UAPs is being withheld not only from the American public but also from their elected Representatives in Congress.”
- 010
“Part of the transparency effort was legislation created in the Pentagon, the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office, or AARO, but the new office is struggling to get its footing.”
- 011
“A recent statutorily required report from AARO intended to illuminate the government's historic assessment of UAPs was heavily criticized by those seeking UAP transparency. The report has stoked suspicions AARO is unable or, perhaps, unwilling to bring forward the truth about the government's activities concerning UAPs.”
- 012
“I am disturbed that AARO itself lacks transparency. Even its budget is kept from the public. So, if there is no there ''there'', then why are we spending money on it, and by how much? Why the secrecy if it is really no big deal and there is nothing there? Why hide it from the American people?”
- 013
“We will also hear, from the witnesses today, allegations of UAP-related misinformation and disinformation by government officials of which they are personally aware and directly experienced.”
- 014
“And we will hear testimony today concerning recent revelations about a purportedly secret UAP program whose existence and findings may have been improperly withheld from Congress.”
- 015
“this is going to be the original document from the Pentagon about Immaculate Constellation that Michael Shellenberger delivered to Congress today. So, thank you, Mr. Shellenberger, for this information. We are all reading it in real time now, and Mr. Burchett will enter it into the record, but 12 pages about this unacknowledged special access program that your government says does not exist.”
- 016
“I want to say that I was greatly saddened to hear about the recent news of Mr. Connolly's cancer diagnosis. And I want to convey to him and to all of our colleagues, we wish our very best to you and a full and speedy recovery.”
- 017
“I want to thank the Chairwoman and the Chairman both for their continued support and really treating this discussion and these hearings in a way that is bipartisan.”
- 018
“I think one thing that is very important for all of us that are interested in the conversation around UAPs, is that this is an area that both Republicans and Democrats, while we may disagree in a lot of other spaces, this is an area where bipartisanship is really important.”
- 019
“We should always ground these conversations in facts, evidence, and the data in front of us.”
- 020
“We know that there are objects or phenomena observed in our airspace, as our witnesses will testify, and also, possibly, in our oceans.”
- 021
“In many cases, we do not know what they are, and, of course, this is why we are discussing UAPs.”
- 022
“The All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office, AARO, has reported hundreds of UAPs that remain, quote, ''uncharacterized and unattributed'' and which, quote, ''appear to have demonstrated unusual flight characteristics or performance capabilities and require further analysis.''”
- 023
“Now, we should not prejudge what they might be. I am certainly not going to. We need evidence. But we are detecting things, and we know that we do not understand them, and this is worth investigating.”
- 024
“The American people have legitimate questions, and I believe it is critical that Congress should help address them.”
- 025
“This is about the truth, and science and facts.”
- 026
“Transparency and faith in our institutions is vital in a good democracy.”
- 027
“In our last hearing in July, we heard testimony that a significant number of pilots of major airlines have witnessed UAPs as well, but have no real confidential way of reporting them to the government.”
- 028
“We heard that commercial pilots, when encountering UAPs, may be hesitant to speak openly due to stigma or fear of retaliation.”
- 029
“We also know that AARO has reported that, and I want to quote, that ''most reports still reflect a bias toward restricted military airspace, a result of reporting from military personnel, and sensors presence in such areas.''”
- 030
“And so, the lack of ability for civilian pilots raises real safety concerns and limits our ability to understand UAPs.”
- 031
“This is a particular piece of this conversation that I am very interested in.”
- 032
“Now, our last hearing inspired us to introduce the Safe Airspace for Americans Act, joined by Chairman Grothman, Chairwoman Mace, and a bipartisan group of cosponsors.”
- 033
“And that would create a safe reporting for the UAP process, which we want to continue to do.”
- 034
“Now, Members of both parties and senior officials in multiple administrations have now taken an interest in this issue.”
- 035
“Mainstream media, in many cases, are beginning to take more of an interest in this issue, and we should all be proud to carry that work and build confidence for the American people.”
- 036
“I believe we can always be more transparent.”
- 037
“To me, this hearing and others are simply about the truth and getting to the facts of what these UAPs actually are.”
- 038
“It is very important that we show that Democrats and Republicans in Congress can work together to cut through misinformation and look for a serious and thoughtful way to have the discussion in public.”
- 039
“Many of us have also called for additional public hearings to discuss UAPs.”
- 040
“This should be a topic that continues on throughout the Congress so we can gather more information, data, and work with the relevant agencies to gather more information.”
- 041
“Finally, I just want to add that those that are here on this dais, many of us have participated also in classified briefings as well, and we have also gained a lot of important, I think, and interesting information, at least I personally have.”
- 042
“And so, with that information, we want to continue today's hearing, and I thank all of our witnesses for being here.”
- 043
“many of us have participated also in classified briefings as well, and we have also gained a lot of important, I think, and interesting information, at least I personally have”
- 044
“This is a topic I have been interested in since eighth grade.”
- 045
“Last year, the Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs held a historic hearing to understand the potential national security risk of unidentified anomalous phenomena, or UAPs.”
- 046
“We heard from former Navy Commander David Fravor, who shared firsthand experience with a UAP engaged while on duty in the Pacific.”
- 047
“We learned from David Grusch, a former member of the intelligence community, who revealed the supposed existence of secret government programs hidden from congressional oversight.”
- 048
“Additionally, former military pilot Ryan Graves informed us of the limited ways in which the military and commercial pilots can report UAP sightings.”
- 049
“First, the Department of Defense Inspector General's Office informed us that the Department of Defense does not have the streamlined process for servicemembers to report UAP activity.”
- 050
“Since then, the Joint Chiefs have implemented standards for UAP reporting across the services.”
- 051
“The intelligence community Inspector General informed us that whistleblowers often fear retaliation for reporting mismanagement of highly sensitive government projects or information.”
- 052
“Finally, AARO has expressed to the committee that, like any other Federal Government agency, it has faced challenges in its establishment, specifically, in hiring staff to manage UAP historical records and coordinating with other Federal agencies.”
- 053
“While these agencies have been helpful to us in understanding the challenges that come from collecting UAP data, none of them have been able to substantiate the claims made at this hearing last year by David Grusch, despite our Committee Members endlessly questioning these agencies inside and outside of the SCIF.”
- 054
“I hope our witnesses today will be able to provide evidence and content that is worthwhile to our pursuits of illuminating government waste and increasing transparency.”
- 055
“To help alleviate some of the roadblocks, I am supportive of measures that were included in last year's National Defense Authorization Act to increase transparency and improve record-keeping measures when it comes to UAPs, but I believe there is still more work to go.”
- 056
“I co-led the Safe Airspace for Americans Act with Ranking Member Garcia, which requires the Federal Aviation Administration to develop procedures to collect UAP data from civilian aviators.”
- 057
“I am deeply alarmed by the reporting of the massive drone swarm that flew over Langley Air Force Base in Virginia last December.”
- 058
“Langley is the home of the First Fighter Wing, which maintains half of the F–22s in the U.S. Air Force inventory.”
- 059
“Reports of this incident indicate these drones were roughly 20 feet long, flying more than 100 miles an hour in an altitude of over 3,000 feet, yet the origin of these drones and their operators remains a mystery.”
- 060
“This incident and other sightings near sensitive military installations highlights the complexity of the UAP challenge facing our Intelligence, Defense, and Homeland Security Committees.”
- 061
“Whether these phenomena are a result of foreign adversaries developing advanced technologies, or something else entirely, we must take them seriously, investigate them thoroughly, and assess their implications on national defense.”
- 062
“The repeated UAP sightings around sensitive military sites underscores the need for innovative defensive strategies beyond traditional measures.”
- 063
“They also highlight the urgent need for updated policies to address emerging threats, as well as more effective interagency cooperation and intelligence sharing.”
- 064
“However, none of this is going to be possible without transparency. For far too long, critical information about UAPs has been either classified or ignored, leaving the American public and Congressmen without clarity needed to make informed decisions.”
- 065
“Declassifying reports and fostering a more open dialog about UAPs will not only increase the public trust but also encourage collaboration between government, the scientific community, and our allies.”
- 066
“Quite frankly, there has been things that have been kept secret that is, I think, old enough that there is no reason it should not be released regardless of any so-called, you know, private information.”
- 067
“A transparent approach will allow us to share insights, identify patterns, and development new strategic defenses.”
- 068
“As we continue to investigate these phenomena, we must do so with the mindset of protecting our country, advancing scientific discovery, and upholding the trust of the American people, who right now I do not think have trust. It is just obvious. I do not have trust.”
- 069
“We cannot shy away from the unknown, especially when the stakes are so high.”
- 070
“I look forward to discussing these matters with the witnesses today. I am hopeful we can learn from the testimony and come out of this hearing with actionable ideas to advance UAP transparency.”
- 071
“Actually, the idea is just to say, in my mind, go back 15 years, and everything has to be released.”
- 072
“Of the 366 sightings included in the report, 171 remain uncharacterized with some of these appearing to have demonstrated unusual flight characteristics or performance capabilities.”
- 073
“In March, AARO revealed a report on the historical record of U.S. Government involvement with UAPs, which covered investigatory efforts going back from 1945 to the present day.”
- 074
“Earlier this year, I joined Congressman Burchett to introduce the UAP Transparency Act, which would require the declassification of all documents related to UAPs, with many other Members of this Committee.”
- 075
“In Fiscal Year 2024, the NDA required the National Archives and Records Administration to establish the unidentified anonymous phenomena records collection. This collection will include digital copies of all unidentified UAP records that can be publicly disclosed.”
- 076
“This commitment in transparency is vitally important, and unnecessary overclassification has led to a void of information, which has allowed theories over the decades to foster.”
- 077
“When the American people and Members of Congress ask, 'Are reports of UAPs credible?' we are met with stonewalling, we are met with responses of, 'I cannot tell you,' and, in fact, we are met with people not wanting us to have hearings; we are met with people not wanting us to ask you questions. In fact, many of us were told not to ask some of you certain questions on certain topics.”
- 078
“In the time of heightened distrust of our government institutions, I believe more transparency is not only needed but is possible. And, obviously, we can respect national security limits, but we also have to provide our constituents with the information and oversight that they have tasked us for.”
- 079
“And there are regular questions that Americans have. What are UAPs? Are they real? Are they ours? How has this technology been developed? How do they get funded? Right?”
- 080
“And now we have seen—this has gone from a long time ago where you could discredit people because it is some guy living in a Winnebago. You are able to see people now. These are pilots. These are military. These are folks with serious backgrounds. This has changed the face of this because now we have video.”
- 081
“We know there are advanced technology programs. Almost 15 years ago, one of those came out of area 51 to go after Osama bin Laden. And the only reason we know about that is because one of those helicopters was downed.”
- 082
“Americans have questions about whistleblowers who have come forward to talk about retribution.”
- 083
“And, as we get into a new administration, the President-elect has talked about opportunities to declassify information on UAPs, and I hope he lives up to that promise.”
- 084
“And I would now—Committee staff asked me to go ahead, and I will do it, to enter into the Congressional Record this 12-page document that Michael Shellenberger brought today that describes the Immaculate Constellation government program. So, we will do that now. Every Member up here has a copy of it.”
- 085
“The first section talks about the unacknowledged special access program called Immaculate Constellation, and the second section about USG imagery intelligence.”
- 086
“And Representative Luna just told me, if I say, 'Immaculate Constellation,' I will be on some list. Maybe a FISA warrant. So, come at me bro, I guess.”
- 087
“Our first witness is retired Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet, who retired from the U.S. Navy and is now the Chief Executive Officer at Ocean STL Consulting.”
- 088
“Our second witness is Mr. Luis Elizondo, a former Department of Defense official and author of a recent bestseller book about UAPs.”
- 089
“Our third witness is Mr. Michael Shellenberger, founder of the newsletter, Public, and author of a recent journalistic piece about special access programs, including one widely identified as Immaculate Constellation.”
- 090
“And our last witness today is Mr. Michael Gold, a former NASA official who was also a member of the NASA UAP independent study team.”
- 091
“I was pleased, as I know all of us are, on the bipartisanship that existed in last year's hearing and, even though we cannot talk about what happens in the classified settings, but bipartisanship that has existed in those settings with the questions Members have asked.”
- 092
“I personally have worked with multiple Members of this Committee, but I want to particularly thank Congressman Burchett, Mace, Luna, and Garcia for working on bipartisan pieces of legislation.”
- 093
“In 2022, in the NDAA, we created the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office to investigate unidentified flying objects. Following, AARO, along with ODNI, released an unclassified report on UAP sightings.”
- 094
“That is a nice way of saying we do not want to tell you what they are.”
- 095
“As part of this, government agencies must maintain open lines of communication with Members of Congress.”
- 096
“Last year's hearing was a great example of open dialog about UAPs, and we must remain committed to sharing information with the American people.”
- 097
“I think you see that commitment based on the people here and the commitment across the political spectrum.”
- 098
“I want to thank the witnesses for coming forward today to share your expertise on UAPs and the need to build trust through transparency.”
- 099
“I first want to thank the Chairs and Ranking Members for holding the hearing today on this topic and, again, having a second hearing.”
- 100
“But, first, I want to mention you might be wondering why Chairman Comer has allowed me to be a Ranking Member today, but it is really only because our dear friend, Gerry Connolly, is not here. As Chairwoman Mace mentioned, he was diagnosed with esophageal cancer. And all of us on this Committee know Gerry, and he is a fighter, and we are praying for him and hoping for his speedy recovery.”
- 101
“I swear the staff wants me on a list.”
- 102
“This is where it gets real.”
- 103
“Confirmation that UAPs are real came to me in January 2015, when I was serving as the Commander of the Naval Meteorology and Oceanography Command.”
- 104
“At the time, my personnel were participating in a predeployment naval exercise off the U.S. East Coast. It included the USS Theodore Roosevelt Carrier Strike Group, and this exercise was overseen by the United States Fleet Forces Command, led by a four-star admiral who, at the time, was also my superior officer.”
- 105
“During this exercise, I received an email on the Navy's secure network from the operations officer of U.S. Fleet Forces Command. The email was addressed to all the subordinate commanders, and the subject line read, in all capital letters, ''URGENT SAFETY OF FLIGHT ISSUE.''”
- 106
“The text of the email was brief but alarming with words to the effect, ''If any of you know what these are, tell me ASAP. We are having multiple near midair collisions, and if we do not resolve this soon, we are going to have to shut down the exercise.''”
- 107
“Attached to the email is what is now known as the Go Fast video captured on the forward-looking infrared sensor of one of the Navy F/A–18 aircraft participating in the exercise. The now declassified video showed an unidentified object exhibiting flight and structural characteristics unlike anything in our arsenal.”
- 108
“The implication of the email was clear. The author was asking whether any of the recipients were aware of classified technology demonstrations that could explain these objects.”
- 109
“Because the DoD policy is to rigorously deconflict such demonstrations with live exercises, I was confident this was not the case.”
- 110
“The very next day, that email disappeared from my account and those of the other recipients without explanation.”
- 111
“Moreover, the Commander of Fleet Forces Command and the operations officer never discussed the subject even during weekly meetings specifically designed to address issues affecting exercises like the one in which the Theodore Roosevelt Strike Group was participating.”
- 112
“This lack of follow-up was very concerning to me. As the Navy's chief meteorologist at the time, I was responsible for reducing safety of flight risks, yet it appeared to me that no one at the flag officer level was addressing the safety risk posed by UAPs.”
- 113
“Instead, pilots were left to mitigate these threats on their own without guidance or support.”
- 114
“I concluded that the UAP information must have been classified within a special access program managed by an intelligence agency. That is, a compartmented program that even senior officials, including myself, were not read into.”
- 115
“Last year's UAP hearing before this Oversight Committee confirmed that UAP-related information is being withheld from senior officials and Members of Congress.”
- 116
“And, just this week, I learned from former DoD official Chris Mellon that satellite imagery of UAP from a few years ago still has not been shared with Congress.”
- 117
“Equally concerning, last year's UAP hearing also revealed that elements of the government are engaged in a disinformation campaign, to include personal attacks designed to discredit UAP whistleblowers.”
- 118
“Having never signed a nondisclosure agreement regarding UAPs and now, as a private citizen, I have become an advocate for greater UAP transparency from the government.”
- 119
“The continued over-classification surrounding UAPs has not only hindered our ability to effectively address these phenomena but has also eroded trust in our institutions.”
- 120
“While I applaud previous bipartisan legislation passed by Congress concerning UAPs, a more comprehensive approach is needed to address the broader implication of UAP on public safety and national security, as well as the socioeconomic opportunities that open UAP research could unlock.”
- 121
“Therefore, I recommend Congress take the following action, which I believe will receive bipartisan support: First, establish robust oversight of the executive branch's management of UAP information by directing key officials, beginning with the Director of the DoD's All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office, to provide comprehensive briefings on what the government knows about UAP and does not know.”
- 122
“Two, enact the provisions of the UAP Disclosure Act to establish a UAP records review board to ensure independent oversight, transparency, and accountability in the government's handling of UAP information.”
- 123
“And, three, strengthen the UAP Disclosure Act and future reauthorizations with provisions that mandate a whole-of-government approach to addressing UAP.”
- 124
“In closing, I will share my personal reasons for speaking out on this topic. First, as a former science agency leader, having led the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration, I have always sought the truth in human knowledge and thought.”
- 125
“Now that we know UAP are interacting with humanity, and these include unidentified submerged objects in the ocean, we should not turn a blind eye but, instead, boldly face this new reality and learn from it.”
- 126
“Additionally, at a time when leaders in government leave much to be desired, I feel obligated to share moral leadership on this issue of UAP disclosure by validating the credibility of the courageous men and women who have come out as witnesses and whistleblowers to expose the truth.”
- 127
“My speaking out has encouraged others to do the same, and it is my hope over time that a number of your constituents will want to know the truth about UAP, and this number will increase to such an extent that the congressional action I just recommended will become inevitable.”
- 128
“UAP are real. Advanced technologies not made by our government or any other government are monitoring sensitive military installations around the globe.”
- 129
“Furthermore, the U.S. is in possession of UAP technologies, as are some of our adversaries.”
- 130
“I believe we are in the midst of a multidecade secretive arms race, one funded by misallocated taxpayer dollars and hidden from our elected Representatives and oversight bodies.”
- 131
“For many years, I was entrusted with protecting some of our Nation's most sensitive programs. In my last position, I managed a special access program on behalf of the White House and the National Security Council.”
- 132
“I consider my oath to protect secrets as sacred, and I will always put the safety of the American people first.”
- 133
“I also understand the consequences of excessive secrecy and stovepiping. Nowhere was this more apparent than in the aftermath of 9/11, which many of us remember all too well.”
- 134
“I believe that America's greatness depends on three elements: A, a watchful Congress; B, a responsive executive branch; and C, an informed public.”
- 135
“Over the last decade and a half, I learned that certain UAP programs were and are operating without any of these elements.”
- 136
“Although, much of my government work on the UAP subject still remains classified, excessive secrecy has led to grave misdeeds against loyal civil servants, military personnel, and the public, all to hide the fact that we are not alone in the cosmos.”
- 137
“A small cadre within our own government involved in the UAP topic has created a culture of suppression and intimidation that I have personally been victim to, along with many of my former colleagues.”
- 138
“This includes unwarranted criminal investigations, harassment, and efforts to destroy one's credibility.”
- 139
“Most Americans would be shocked to learn that the Pentagon's very own public affairs office openly employs a professional psychological operations officer as the singular point of contact for any UAP-related inquiries from citizens and the media. This is unacceptable.”
- 140
“Many of my former colleagues and I have provided classified testimony to both the Department of Defense and the intelligence community Inspector General, and many of us have subsequently been targeted by this cabal with threats to our careers, our security clearances, and even our lives.”
- 141
“This is not hyperbole but a genuine fact, and this is wrong.”
- 142
“To fix these problems, I propose three principal actions. First, Congress and the President should create a single point of contact responsible for a whole-of-government approach to the UAP issue.”
- 143
“Currently, the White House, CIA, NASA, the Pentagon, Department of Energy, and others play a role, but no one seems to be in charge, leading to unchecked power and corruption.”
- 144
“Second, we need a national UAP strategy that will promote transparency and help restore the American public's trust at a time when the public's trust is at an all-time low.”
- 145
“This strategy should include a whole-of-government approach, including the academic and scientific communities, the private sector, and our international partners and allies.”
- 146
“Third, Congress should create a protected environment so whistleblowers desperate to do the right thing can come forward without fear.”
- 147
“As it currently stands, these whistleblowers suffer because of stigma, a code of silence, and concerns about retaliation.”
- 148
“These whistleblowers should be encouraged to come forward in ways that protect them against any forms of retaliation. Policies and procedures should ensure that protection.”
- 149
“And, for those who refuse to cooperate, it is up to the Members of this Committee and other lawyer makers to wield their subpoena power against hostile witnesses and prevent additional government funding to those UAP efforts that remain hidden from congressional oversight.”
- 150
“In closing, we, as Americans, have never been afraid of a challenge. In fact, we thrive on them. Whether it is eradicating polio or going to the moon, we do not run from a challenge. We take it head on.”
- 151
“To the incoming administration in Congress, I say to you we need immediate public transparency, and this hearing is an important step on that journey.”
- 152
“If we approach the UAP topic in the same way as we, as Americans, have met other challenges, we can restore our faith in our government institutions.”
- 153
“Together, we can usher in a new era of accountable government and scientific discovery. I believe that we, as Americans, can handle the truth, and I also believe the world deserves the truth.”
- 154
“One of Congress' most important responsibilities is oversight of the executive branch, in general, and the military and intelligence community in particular. Unfortunately, there is a growing body of evidence that the U.S. Government is not being transparent about what it knows about unidentified anomalous phenomena and that elements within the military and the IC are in violation of their constitutional duty to notify Congress of their operations.”
- 155
“President-elect Donald Trump and former President Barrack Obama have both said that the government has information about UAPs that it has not released.”
- 156
“There are other explanations for UAPs, that they represent a new form of life or nonhuman life. Current dominant alternative theories, including those put forward by AARO, are that UAPs are some kind of natural phenomenon we do not yet understand, like ball lighting or plasma. They could also be part of some new U.S. or foreign government weapons program, such as drones, aircraft, balloons, CGI hoaxes, or birds.”
- 157
“However, we now have existing and former U.S. Government officials who have told Congress that AARO and the Pentagon have broken the law by not revealing a significant body of information about UAPs, including military intelligence data bases that have evidence of their existence as physical craft.”
- 158
“One of those individuals is a current or former U.S. Government official acting as a UAP whistleblower. This person has written a report. This is the report that says the executive branch has been managing UAP/NHI issues without congressional knowledge, oversight, or authorization for some time, quite possibly decades.”
- 159
“Furthermore, these individuals have revealed the name of an active and highly secretive DoD unacknowledged special access program, or USAP. The source of that document told Public, me, that the USAP is a strategic intelligence program that is part of the U.S. military family of longstanding, highly sensitive programs dealing with various aspects of the UAP problem.”
- 160
“The new UAP whistleblower claims that the U.S. military and IC data base includes videos and images taken using infrared, forward-looking infrared, full motion video, and still photography.”
- 161
“The report that was just shared with Congress says Immaculate Constellation serves as a central or parent USAP that consolidates observations of UAPs by both tasked and untasked collection platforms.”
- 162
“Immaculate Constellation includes high-quality imagery intelligence and measurement and signature intelligence of UAPs, the whistleblower's report adds. The sources of this intelligence are a blend of directed and incidental collection capacities, capabilities, position in low Earth orbit, the upper atmosphere, as well as military and civilian aviation altitudes and maritime environments.”
- 163
“The report to Congress details in detail various UAPs, including spheres/orbs, discs/saucers, ovals, triangles, boomerang/arrowhead, and irregular/organic.”
- 164
“One involved orbs surrounding and forcing an F–22 out of its patrol area.”
- 165
“In another incident, the crew of a Navy aircraft carrier watched a small orange/red sphere rapidly descend from a high altitude of 100 to 200 yards directly above the flight deck of the CVN aircraft carrier.”
- 166
“And, since my reporting on this Immaculate Constellation last month, another source came forward who told me that they saw a roughly 13-minute long, high-definition, full-color video of a white orb UAP coming out of the ocean approximately 20 miles off the coast of Kuwait. It was filmed from a helicopter.”
- 167
“Then, halfway through the video, the person said the orb is joined by another orb that briefly comes into the frame from the left before rapidly moving again out of the frame.”
- 168
“The person discovered the video on SIPR, the Secure Internet Protocol Router Network, which the DoD uses to transmit classified information.”
- 169
“A leading UAP researcher who utilizes the Freedom of Information Act to find out what the government knows, John Greenewald, told me last year that the U.S. Government had been increasingly denying his request for UAP information. He has been doing FOIA requests for 27 years and has an archive of 3 million pages.”
- 170
“The government has for decades denied any interest in UFOs. He told me that the documents that he has assembled showed that behind the scenes, it was a completely different story.”
- 171
“Contrary to the hopes of many advocates of transparency, the government has been restricting more information since the leak of three UAP videos in 2017.”
- 172
“The DoD organization, AARO, has been labeling many documents with a B7 exemption, which Greenewald says does not make any sense. They are stating that anything AARO does is involved in a law enforcement investigation, which allows AARO to not release it.”
- 173
“Greenewald says that DoD has denied the existence of UAP and AATIP-related records on multiple occasions, only to acknowledge them after an appeal was filed.”
- 174
“He added that the Naval Air Systems Command in March 2022 stated they found no additional UAP videos. It seems strange that they had three and only those three, but other requests have been filed by The Black Vault—that is John Greenewald's group—to seek out more places UAPs might be hiding.”
- 175
“Then, in September 2022, the Navy admitted that the UAP-related videos and photographs existed but denied the request in full for their release saying that the requested videos contain sensitive information that are classified and exempt from disclosure.”
- 176
“The DoD will ''deny things on a Monday and then admit to it on a Friday,'' said Greenewald.”
- 177
“He said the government can and does release videos that protect secret methods of capturing it. They fall back on the sensitive platform excuse a lot, he said. However, the on-screen information can be blurred and scrubbed. The metadata can be removed.”
- 178
“I will show you this example here. This is a presentation from the UAP task force. This is completely absurd. It is nuts, this level of censorship, of redaction on a document. It shows the redaction of how many reports they have collected for how many years. Two of the three potential explanations are blacked out.”
- 179
“The Pentagon, the intelligence community is treating us like children. It is time for us to know the truth about this. I think that we can handle it.”
- 180Unknown SpeakerAllegationCertainty: BelievedUnder oath
“Two of the three potential explanations are blacked out. The Pentagon, the intelligence community is treating us like children. It is time for us to know the truth about this.”
- 181
“Courage is what it takes to tackle this topic, and courage, in the face of adversity, is what I see in front of me, beside me, and behind me.”
- 182
“I am currently the Chief Growth Officer at Redwire Space and have had several leadership positions at NASA. That being said, I want to be clear that I am speaking exclusively on my own behalf and not for Redwire, NASA, or any other organization.”
- 183
“Science requires data, which should be collected without bias or prejudice. Yet, whenever the topic of UAP arises, those who wish to explore the phenomenon are often confronted with resistance and ridicule.”
- 184
“For example, members of the NASA UAP independent study team, particularly those in academia, were mocked and even threatened for simply having the temerity to engage in the study of UAP.”
- 185
“Our best tool for unlocking the mystery of UAP is science, but we cannot conduct a proper inquiry if the stigma is so overwhelming that just daring to be part of a NASA research team elicits such a vitriolic response.”
- 186
“Therefore, one of most important actions that can be taken relative to exposing the truth of UAP is to combat the stigma, and this is where I believe that NASA can be imminently helpful.”
- 187
“The NASA brand is synonymous with hope, optimism, and credibility. If you were to take a walk down to National Mall, you would immediately see the NASA logo on T-shirts, hats, and bumper stickers. Few Federal agencies enjoy this kind of popularity.”
- 188
“Specifically, NASA could, with relatively little cost and effort, host symposia on UAP or even just participate in existing panels examining the topic. NASA personnel stepping forward and participating in such discussions would make a powerful statement to the scientific community that UAP should be taken seriously and researched accordingly.”
- 189
“In regard to research, NASA has vast archives, much of which may contain important UAP data. Again, for relatively little cost and effort, NASA could create an AI or ML algorithm that could search the agency's archives for anomalous phenomena.”
- 190
“I suspect that such an effort would not only result in information that will help us to understand UAP but could result in data that will assist in other areas of scientific inquiry, such as anomalous weather or meteorite activity.”
- 191
“Beyond its existing archives, NASA could act as a clearinghouse for civilian and commercial UAP data.”
- 192
“During my work on the UAP independent study team, it quickly became evident that there is no clear or well-publicized process for civilian pilots to report UAP sightings.”
- 193
“The stigma associated with UAP hampers the number of pilots that would report such phenomena, but even for those who overcome the stigma, I believe the current FAA guidance is largely unknown and poorly understood.”
- 194
“In order to effectively collect UAP data, the independent study team recommended the use of NASA's aviation safety reporting system, or ASRS.”
- 195
“The system, which is administered by NASA and funded by the FAA, provides a confidential means for reporting of safety violations in a voluntary and nonpunitive manner.”
- 196
“Over 47 years, the ASRS has collected nearly 2 million reports.”
- 197
“ASRS is the perfect tool to collect UAP data, which could then be collated by NASA and shared with the public at-large.”
- 198
“Leveraging ASRS could create a treasure trove of UAP data, potentially hundreds of thousands of reports supporting this hearing's goal of exposing the truth.”
- 199
“I am grateful to our two co-Chairs and other Members who have already incorporated this idea into proposed legislation.”
- 200
“At this hearing, as others have demonstrated, the UAP issue is justifiably dominated by national security and defense.”
- 201
“However, I would urge the Subcommittees to keep in mind the numerous ways that NASA and the FAA, as well as commercial activities in the air, in space, and in the water can generate a massive amount of invaluable data on anomalous phenomena.”
- 202
“I cannot help but be excited by the potential for such an endeavor since scientific discovery is driven by anomalies.”
- 203
“It is the existence and study of anomalies that led to the theory of relativity, quantum mechanics, and nearly all of humanity's scientific breakthroughs.”
- 204
“This is why the study of UAPs should be embraced since, whatever is occurring, the chance to garner new knowledge, should never be ignored.”
- 205
“We must be thorough in collecting information, fearless in making conclusions, and open to following the data no matter how mundane or extraordinary the results may be.”
- 206
“I began this testimony by praising the joint Subcommittee Members for their courage, and I will end by echoing that sentiment. As the saying goes, the truth is out there. We just need to be bold enough and brave enough to face it.”
- 207
“I have a lot of questions, and I have a lot of witnesses. So, I would just ask, if it is ''yes'' or ''no'', to please just tell me ''yes'' or ''no''. If it requires more than that, be very succinct because I would like to go down the line and ask as many questions as possible.”
- 208
“So, for the Admiral this morning first, former DoD official Chris Mellon reached out to about satellite imagery from 2017 that depicts a UAP. What were the dates in 2017 when this occurred?”
- 209
“I cannot share with you the details, ma'am, but I can do it in a closed setting, and I could also tell you the agency that wrote a report on it.”
- 210
“So, who has the imagery?”
- 211
“I can tell you that in a closed setting.”
- 212
“Can you describe what was depicted in the satellite imagery, just a description?”
- 213
“It was a UAP, ma'am.”
- 214
“That is it? No other description?”
- 215
“The term that the analyst used, they call it the button. It was a disc-shaped object.”
- 216
“OK. Where was it?”
- 217
“I cannot tell you that, ma'am.”
- 218
“All right. Mr. Elizondo, you state in your testimony that, quote, ''Advanced technologies not by our government or any other government are monitoring sensitive military installations around the globe,'' end quote. If these technologies are not made by any government, who is making them? Private companies? Or are you implying they are crafted by a nonhuman intelligence?”
- 219
“Well, ma'am, that is precisely why we are here. The problem is that, temporally speaking, over decades, not just the last 10 years, before—to put this in perspective——”
- 220
“Are these private companies you are implying, or is this nonhuman intelligence?”
- 221
“It may be both.”
- 222
“When it comes to Blue Force Technologies, I would not be able to discuss——”
- 223
“Are you read into secret UAP crash retrieval programs?”
- 224
“Correct, sir. It was a limitation on what I—because already I had been speaking publicly about the topic, and so the document said, ''You can continue saying X, Y, Z, but you cannot discuss the topic of crash retrieval.''”
- 225
“I am in a SCIF with a security officer, sir.”
- 226
“There may have been an assistant as well. It was in a SCIF within a Department of Defense facility.”
- 227
“My background is I went to school to study microbiology and immunology. I entered into the U.S. Army, and after a very short stint in military intelligence, I became a counterintelligence special agent as a civilian. Later on, I became a special agent in charge, running investigations and counter terrorism and counter espionage primarily with some experience in counter insurgency and counter narcotics.”
- 228
“And then, in 2009 timeframe, when I came back to the Pentagon after a tour with the Director of National Intelligence, I quickly became part of a program that was originally called AAWSAP. That evolved into the program now called AATIP, which is where those videos that we now see, the GOFAST, the GIMBAL, the FLIR, that was part of our effort, sir.”
- 229
“Well, I suspect there would be repercussions. I would not have access to certain information.”
- 230
“It was an option, but they probably would not have allowed me to because the document itself was pretty explicit about you have to be—you are putting me in an interesting—let me try to thread the needle here.”
- 231
“There are certain documents that we have in the U.S. Government that allow people to have access to certain programs, whether it is a specialized—I am being very generic here—whether it is a special access program or controlled access program, SAP, CAP, whatnot.”
- 232
“It depends how many people are going to get access to the information, sir.”
- 233
“I wrote a lot about incidents like it, Congressman, but that specific incident involved the USS Omaha, the tour combat ship of the U.S. Navy operating off of Southern California. I do not remember the exact date. It was within the last decade, but what the watch standers on the bridge observed was a UAP. Again, something that was aloft but had no observable exhaust or control surfaces. So, it was something that could not be explained. And then they saw it enter the water from the atmosphere and going through the air/sea interface and so, thus, exhibiting transmedium travel.”
- 234
“During a previous UAP hearing, Navy Commander David Fravor discussed the Tic Tac object engaged in 2004. Are you familiar with the incident, the Tic Tac incident?”
- 235
“That is almost 20 years ago, right?”
- 236
“It has been said there are more videos, documents, and reports related to this incident. Do you believe the information regarding the Tic Tac incident should be available to all Members of Congress? In your expertise, what reason would the Department of Defense possibly have for not releasing information that is over 20 years old?”
- 237
“Thank you, Congressman. I do not think there is any good reason to withhold information and important data, especially of a national security concern, from Congress.”
- 238
“I will speculate, sir, that they do not want to share that kind of information because it reveals weaknesses in our ability to monitor and protect our airspace.”
- 239
“Earlier this year, I met with the DoD's All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office, and what I thought would be a 90-minute meeting just to meet with leadership turned out to be an hours-long influence operation on me, where I was—they attempted to convince me of the validity of the very flawed and error-ridden historical records report.”
- 240
“In addition, they tried to have me question very valid UAP reports like the Tic Tac incident, even coming to a—stating possibly that the Tic Tac was American technology. And then, of course, if you ask David Fravor or Alex Dietrich, the two witnesses, they were convinced it was otherwise.”
- 241
“And then—and they also cast discredit on various UAP whistleblowers and witnesses to—Question their validity and credibility as witnesses.”
- 242
“You are familiar with the recent drone incursion over Langley Air Force Base?”
- 243
“So, that document that you signed that you said exists specifically said you cannot talk about crash retrieval?”
- 244
“So, you are not some conspiracy theorist. You actually have a legitimate background.”
- 245
“Well, sir, I am certainly not a conspiracy theorist. I am fact-based, just a fact——”
- 246
“It is about a page front and back. So, basically, you have some things they call trigraphs, which I cannot, again, talk——”
- 247
“How long were you given to sign the document?”
- 248
“As long as I needed, sir.”
- 249
“And what if you did not sign it?”
- 250
“Were you allowed to conduct—ask a lawyer or you were not allowed to talk—you were not allowed to ask for a lawyer to review the document?”
- 251
“How many people have to sign that document?”
- 252
“Last question. Doctor, real quick, can you tell us about the Omaha incident in greater detail? I have read your background, right. Some people would label you as a member of the deep state since you worked in government for a long period of time. But can you tell us more about that incident? You have written a lot about that.”
- 253
“In your written testimony, you claim last year's UAP hearing before this Oversight Committee confirmed that UAP-related information is—well, it is not only being withheld, but that elements of the government are engaging in a disinformation campaign, to in-clude personal attacks designed to discredit UAP whistleblowers. Could you elaborate on that statement a little?”
- 254
“The owners of the drones remain unclear. The U.S. military has not been able to give us in Congress an answer.”
- 255
“Given your experience with the Department of Defense and the intelligence community, how frequently are UAP sightings over military installations? And, second, I suppose hypothetically you could have incursions over just, say, regular airports. Is it obvious these incursions are more likely over military facilities than just a random airport out there?”
- 256
“Yes, sir, there is definitely enough data to suggest that there is certainly some sort of relationship between sensitive U.S. military installations, also some of our nuclear equities, and also some of our Department of Energy sites.”
- 257
“There is a long historical record that some of your colleagues may have, documentation that demonstrates this. This is not a new trend; this has been going on for decades. And that information has been obfuscated, unfortunately, from folks like you and this Committee.”
- 258
“And I think that is problematic because, ultimately, at the end of the day, we have a significant situation here. We have something that can enter into U.S. airspace, completely with no attribution——”
- 259
“Sir, decades. And there is information that will hopefully be entered into the record at some point.”
- 260
“Can you think of any possible reason why they cannot release any information they have on something, say, 15 or 20 years old?”
- 261
“Sir, if I could echo my colleague here, Admiral Gallaudet, I think one of the big issues that we have in the intelligence community and Department of Defense is we do not want to broadcast any potential vulnerabilities or weaknesses in our national defense systems or in our intelligence collection platforms. Therefore, when you have a conversation where you address a problem for which there is no solution, it makes that a very uncomfortable conversation to have.”
- 262
“The primary reason you are here today is because you published an article on the news publication that you own—called Public, right?—alleging that a new, unnamed government whistleblower has come forward asserting that a highly classified program exists dedicated to recovery and reverse engineering of UAP technologies.”
- 263
“Well, you have the report in front of you now, so you can see it for yourself. But I checked the report, and I did not find it based on existing cases; it was new cases for me. At least, I had not found anybody—so that solved—that answered for me that it was not obviously circular reporting, which is one of the big concerns in this space.”
- 264
“I also had the name of the program confirmed by more than one additional source. So—yes. And then, of course, I checked to make sure that the source was who they claimed to be.”
- 265
“I should also say that when I said before it was this data base, it is a much broader program than that. It also includes human intelligence and then, as you mentioned, the retrieval and the——”
- 266
“Any knowledge of what country these things originated in?”
- 267
“No. No, I have no idea.”
- 268
“I request unanimous consent to enter into the record documents provided to us regarding legacy UAP programs and psychological operations, Lue Elizondo.”
- 269
“I also want to thank my buddy Jeremy Corbell for providing these documents and access to some whistleblowers.”
- 270
“Sir, I was the Director of National Programs Special Management Staff, managing a White House special access program on behalf of the National Security Council.”
- 271
“How would you characterize UAPs?”
- 272
“An enigma, sir, and a frustration. We are talking about technologies that can outperform anything we have in our inventory. And if this was an adversarial technology, this would be an intelligence failure eclipsing that of 9/11 by an order of magnitude.”
- 273
“Are there classified Department of Defense materials related to UAPs that you believe could be safely disclosed to the public without compromising national security?”
- 274
“Yes, sir, I do. I would never, ever try to endorse providing some sort of information that could compromise what we call a ''blue force'' technology or capability, but I do believe there is a lot of information regarding this topic—and I have been very vocal about it—that should be shared not only with the public but, most importantly, with Members of Congress.”
- 275
“Are you familiar with my friend David Grusch?”
- 276
“Absolutely, sir. I had the privilege and honor of working with him myself several years ago at U.S. Space Force.”
- 277
“Last year, as you know, he testified that the U.S. has run a multi-decade UAP crash, retrieval, and reverse engineering program. Would you agree with that?”
- 278
“Are there UAP programs operating without—without—proper congressional oversight?”
- 279
“One hundred percent.”
- 280
“What are they?”
- 281
“Unfortunately, sir, I would have to have that conversation in a closed session.”
- 282
“I know you said that, and a lot of people are frustrated with those kind of answers, but we are asking those kind of questions so you all know what the heck we're up against.”
- 283
“You also mentioned in your opening statement that the Pentagon's Public Affairs Office employs a psychological operations officer as the singular point of contact for UAP-related inquiries. Why the heck would they do that?”
- 284
“Sir, that is a great question. I would ask the Pentagon. There is a long history here of that individual providing misleading and false information to the public through various news outlets and media outlets in order to discredit this topic. I have personally been victim to it. We have the documentation to substantiate where this information has been absolutely inaccurate that has been provided time and time again. And it turns out that that individual was also working with former leadership of AARO at the time as well.”
- 285
“And we punish them by giving them multimillion dollars more than they ask for every year.”
- 286
“Admiral Gallaudet, you mentioned in your opening statement an email you received from the operations officer of the Fleet Forces Command regarding unknown objects almost colliding with U.S. military planes. Did anyone respond with knowledge of what the objects were?”
- 287
“I have received no response, sir.”
- 288
“Did the operation—did the exercise get canceled?”
- 289
“The exercise did not get canceled.”
- 290
“Why do you think the Commander of Fleet Forces operations officer never discussed the incident again?”
- 291
“Sir, I am speculating, because I did not have an exchange with him, but I believed it to be part of a special access program, the information and the video, which we know now it was. And he realized he could not share that openly with the recipients of the email, and, therefore, the email was pulled from everybody's account.”
- 292
“Again, tell us what happened to the email from the Commander of Fleet Forces.”
- 293
“We are talking about technologies that can outperform anything we have in our inventory.”
- 294
“If this was an adversarial technology, this would be an intelligence failure eclipsing that of 9/11 by an order of magnitude.”
- 295
“Sir, I am speculating, because I did not have an exchange with him, but I believed it to be part of a special access program, the information and the video, which we know now it was.”
- 296
“And he realized he could not share that openly with the recipients of the email, and, therefore, the email was pulled from everybody's account.”
- 297
“The day after I received it and all the other recipients received it—which were all the subordinate commanders of U.S. Fleet Forces, so one-and two-star admirals, including strike group commanders—the email was wiped or deleted from our accounts”
- 298
“And then no one talked about it.”
- 299
“Sir, I have not—no personal experience, but I have had witnesses on submarines come to me and say they have seen on sonar data”
- 300
“The one instance that I was—that was revealed to me was in the 1980's on a nuclear-powered submarine, a ballistic missile submarine, that the object exhibited the characteristics of a Russian torpedo in terms of its speed of movement and closing rate with the submarine.”
- 301
“And then it slowed and followed the submarine slowly in its wake for a period of minutes and then rapidly exited the scene.”
- 302
“And nothing that we know of technology-wise could replicate that.”
- 303
“And the speed of these objects was faster than anything that we have or anybody else has that would be manned. Is that correct?”
- 304
“It was on the order of a—— Torpedo, so——”
- 305
“Yes, Congressman. As I mentioned previously, I have met with them.”
- 306
“You heard Mr. Elizondo describe psychological operations for those contacting the Department of Defense about UAPs. You mentioned a similar influence operation by AARO. Why are Federal agencies invested in running information operations about UAPs if they do not exist?”
- 307
“Yes, sir. But I will make a statement on AARO's behalf. They have new leadership. The office has reached out to me to meet again, and I take that as a good-faith effort. And we will see where that goes.”
- 308
“Mr. Elizondo, Mr. Shellenberger notes in his—in the report that we have been given for this hearing—I believe, Mr. Shellenberger—let me shift—you are author of this report?”
- 309
“I am sorry, sir, I am not the author of——”
- 310
“No, I was not.”
- 311
“Do you know the author?”
- 312
“The person is a current or former U.S. Government employee.”
- 313
“And it states here that it is the public version of the author's report.”
- 314
“So, where might one find the non-public version of the author's report?”
- 315
“I do not know the answer to that.”
- 316
“Would that be with the Department of Defense?”
- 317
“I do not know.”
- 318
“The author's sources are described in the report—these data bases, the Immaculate Constellation program——”
- 319
“I would.”
- 320
“I do.”
- 321
“Are they within the Department of Defense?”
- 322
“I cannot say.”
- 323
“You cannot say or you will not say?”
- 324
“I will not say.”
- 325
“Because I protect my sources, and I think the——”
- 326
“I am uncomf—I am not willing to reduce—— The potential universe of my— where my sources might be.”
- 327
“Moving on, in this report, Mr. Elizondo, for reference, several types of allegedly alien craft or possibly alien craft or unknown AARO phenomena, what we used to call UFOs, are described—spheres and orbs, disks and saucers, oval or Tic Tac, triangular shape, boomerang and arrowhead, and irregular or organic.”
- 328
“Sir, that is the general morphology, historical speaking, of many UAPs——”
- 329
“So, those descriptions are very different craft. Is it your assessment that they would come of different origins?”
- 330
“It is possible, but this also could be a matter of utility.”
- 331
“And let me just state for the record, I never read the report that—or the article that Mr. Shellenberger put out. The reason is——”
- 332
“Mr. Shellenberger, in this report, it is striking to me that, regarding the descriptions of experiences with these various craft, several of them include biological effects and several do not.”
- 333
“OK. So, spheres and orbs, triangular craft, and irregular or organic craft include some descriptions of biological effects, including feelings of unease, electronic device malfunctions, long-term psychological effects such as anxiety or insomnia have been noted, feeling of being watched, a shared awareness with the triangle craft. And under the irregular and organic craft, biological effects include physical sensations of warmth or cold and unexplained smells and psychological distress.”
- 334
“So, these are very specific descriptions of the reactions of human beings which allegedly have been noted from a study here, a report. All of those experiences would have been described by the sources that the author used?”
- 335
“I am not sure I understand your question, sir.”
- 336
“This is a very broad description of biological effects, and it is striking to me that they are present with relation to some types of craft—— But absent in others. This would require a great deal of research and study. Can you explain that?”
- 337
“it is important that more civilian pilots, commercial pilots report so we can better understand and learn and do research on UAP, as well as remove the stigma so more citizens report on what they observe”
- 338
“it will only contribute to aviation safety when we have a better understanding of where these UAP are, how they operate, and at what frequency and what capability level”
- 339
“this is a very bipartisan piece of legislation, and we have just got to continue to get this through the Congress”
- 340
“it is incredibly important that civilian pilots have the opportunity to safely report the UAPs that they are seeing or encountering in the air”
- 341
“I cannot express how critical this piece is, of what I believe is a larger collection of evidence and facts, actually happen”
- 342
“We have been approached by pilots, I have talked to folks that have been engaged with our office and others, and there is still enormous stigma, and essentially we do not have a system where folks are feeling free to be able to report what they are seeing”
- 343
“The Aviation Safety Reporting System is an existing system that is trusted, that has taken hundreds of thousands, now millions, of cases”
- 344
“recognizing budgetary constraints, this seems like the perfect way to be able to gain more data”
- 345
“it is something that pilots are used to reporting on, that crew is used to reporting on. So, it is a great way to get data, to overcome the stigma, without spending really that much more additional money since the system exists”
- 346
“This is a commonsense means to expose the truth of UAP for the purpose of this hearing”
- 347
“earlier this year, as part of the House defense authorization bill, the NDAA, I had filed an amendment to include the UAP Disclosure Act, which would create a UAP Records Review Board with exercise of eminent domain over UAP-related material, modeled actually on the JFK Assassination Records Collection Act”
- 348
“the amendment was blocked, but thankfully the Senate included the amendment by Senators Rounds and Schumer for the UAP Disclosure Act”
- 349
“we should be pushing and ensuring the UAP Disclosure Act, which is bipartisan in its support, should move forward”
- 350
“I believe the UAP Disclosure Act is important for national security; as well as advancing potential socioeconomic benefits resulting from UAP research; as well as public safety, as we referred to previously, regarding aviation”
- 351
“this act will allow for greater transparency and open research”
- 352
“I am also a member of the UAP Discloser Fund as an advisor and the Sol Foundation as a senior strategic advisor, which is advocating the same”
- 353
“the video that is called the ''Go Fast'' video, the email that you have talked about being deleted, I just want to briefly cover this. You said that the email—the author was asking whether any of the recipients were aware of the classified technology demonstrations that could explain the objects that were observed”
- 354
“the email disappears; then you guys have a series of meetings; the Commander of Fleet Forces and his operations officer never discussed the incident again. Is that accurate?”
- 355
“That is accurate, sir”
- 356
- 357
- 358
- 359
“No, I did not, sir, because I inferred, since I had been read in to other special access programs, that this UAP video was part of one that I was not read in to, or any of the recipients or the author of the email, and that an intelligence agency basically pulled it back and instructed the author of the email, ''Hey, this is—you just conducted what they call 'spillage' into a lower classification level.'' And when that is done, the procedures are basically to remove any of the communications”
- 360
“You are going to silo it”
- 361
“Government work on UAP subjects still remains classified. Excessive secrecy has led to grave misdeeds against loyal civil servants, military personnel, and the public—all to hide the fact that we are not alone in the cosmos”
- 362
“Fair?”
- 363
“Yes, sir”
- 364
“What I would say, too, is: You were asked about the veracity of the author of this report. Are you comfortable with the veracity?”
- 365
“Yes”
- 366
“For what purpose is the Federal Government overclassifying—because that is what they are doing; they are overclassifying—and forbidding the public from getting access to this?”
- 367
“And if you know, if you have an explanation, I am curious. Because I know what I have been told. I just want to know from your perspective, why do they overclassify?”
- 368
“I think there are several reasons. I think at the time when this first—this reality became evident to the U.S. Government, we were in the middle of a cold war with then-Soviet Union, and we did not want to tip our hands to what our knowledge base was on this topic. We did not want to broadcast that to the community”
- 369
“The cold war is long over”
- 370
“It is, sir. It is, sir. There is also, then, the philosophical argument that the Department of Defense and the intelligence community is solution-oriented, and when you do not have answers, it is a really tough spot to be in”
- 371
“It is easier to be quiet and suppress if you do not have the answer”
- 372
“Indeed, sir. In fact, there is a very real example when we built the U–2 spy plane and flew it over then-Russia and were taking reconnaissance. And when we first started flying the aircraft, it flew so high and so fast we thought they were not tracking us. In reality, they were tracking every flight”
- 373
“It wasn't until the Russians could develop the SA–2 surface-to-air missile and successfully shoot them down——”
- 374
“In fact, there is a very real example when we built the U–2 spy plane and flew it over then-Russia and were taking reconnaissance. And when we first started flying the aircraft, it flew so high and so fast we thought they were not tracking us. In reality, they were tracking every flight.”
- 375
“It wasn't until the Russians could develop the SA–2 surface-to-air missile and successfully shoot them down”
- 376
“On USG networks, there exists infrared footage of and imagery of a grouping of vessels engaged in SIGINT and MASINT collection at night in a specific area of the Pacific Ocean. In this footage, which was in close proximity to the vessels, a large equilateral-triangle UAP suddenly appears directly over the ships. Three bright points are seen at each bottom corner of the UAP, which is observed to slowly rotate on its horizontal access.”
- 377
“While performing a routine Airspace Surveillance and Control Mission in the Eastern Air Defense Sector, an F–22 fighter observed multiple UAP contacts at mission altitude. Moving to intercept, the F–22 pilot noted multiple metallic orbs, slightly smaller than a sedan, hovering in place. Upon vectoring toward the UAPs, a smaller formation of the metallic orbs accelerated at rapid speed toward the F–22, which was unable to establish radar locks on the presumed-hostile UAPs. The F–22 broke trajectory and attempted to evade but was intercepted and boxed in by approximately three to six UAPs.”
- 378
“All breakthroughs have been heretical at first, and that is the challenge that we face, particularly with something as extraordinary as this, which is why gathering the data is so important.”
- 379
“The overclassification of material is in no way limited to UAP. That is occurring throughout the government, as well as the inability to get people classifications in a timely and efficient measure and then to have those classifications be broad enough to be useful.”
- 380
“Does any branch of the U.S. Government or defense contractors possess technology?”
- 381
“There is documentation, that I believe was submitted for the record, that was approved for release by the U.S. Pentagon, by the Department of Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review. And it states that one of the reasons why my predecessor program, AAWSAP, was trying to collect material of unknown origin”
- 382
“And was it successfully collected?”
- 383
“It was not. What happened is that there was an aerospace contract company that requested to divest itself of the material that was collected in the 1950s. Unfortunately, that did not actually occur.”
- 384
“So, let us dive into that. That is the Bigelow Aerospace, correct?”
- 385
“Yes, sir.”
- 386
“So, there was a journalist, Christopher Sharp, who said that there was a transfer between Lockheed Martin, Bigelow Aerospace, and the CIA allegedly blocked this. Can you describe that?”
- 387
“What I can say is that it was blocked. Why it was blocked, I can only surmise. I was part of some conversations later on with some of those contract personnel where they had told all of us that is accurate.”
- 388
“What we required was a memo from the Secretary of the Air Force in order to make that complete, and that never occurred. And so, when Secretary Mattis became Secretary of Defense, I decided it would be appropriate for me to try to receive a memo from him, as SecDef, as Secretary of Defense, if we could not get a memo from the Secretary of the Air Force to transfer that material.”
- 389
“So, if that material exists today, who is in possession?”
- 390
“Sir, I would not be able to have that conversation in an open hearing. We would probably have to have that in closed.”
- 391
“If we were in a secure setting, if we were in a SCIF, would you be able to provide or get access to something, whether it is visuals or material that we could put our hands on, or biologics, that would convince me, that would show me that we have nonhuman origins?”
- 392
“Sir, that decision would not be mine. That would be to the gatekeepers still in the U.S. Government.”
- 393
“If you were in our shoes, where would you go? How would you get that information? How would—where is—you know, a lot of times we just don't know who to ask, because we do not know where to go next. So, if you were in our shoes, where would you go?”
- 394
“Well, I prefer to answer that question in a closed session. However, we established AARO for that very purpose. And, unfortunately, under its previous leadership, it failed. So, one would hope that they would have the authorities necessary to do that. Let us hope that this new iteration of leadership will be successful.”
- 395
“In the discussions, it is simply about material? Or is there discussion about—it was previously testified that there was biologics that were collected. Are you aware of any of that?”
- 396
“I am, sir, aware of the reporting that biologics have been recovered. Again, my focus was more nuts and bolts, looking at the physical aspects of these phenomenon, how they interacted around military equities and nuclear equities. So, I am certainly not a medical expert. I would not be able to probably provide you a whole lot of value in that, simply because I do not have the expertise.”
- 397
“But was anything described as that we have possession of bodies?”
- 398
“Yes. Yes, sir.”
- 399
“Is it multiple types of creatures? Or——”
- 400
“Sir, I could not answer that. I can tell you anecdotally that it was discussed quite a bit when I was at the Pentagon. The problem is, the supposed collection of these biological samples occurred before my time, in fact before I was even born.”
- 401
“Has anyone made contact?”
- 402
“Sir, I am sorry, could you specify——”
- 403
“And I would suggest to you also, along with Lakatos and Kuhn, you also have a problem with Kenneth Arrow's path dependence and increasing returns. That is one reason why they will not disclose it, is it is too painful to admit.”
- 404
“And the problem that we have here is, you have institutional blockage of what would be normal development of scientific ideas.”
- 405
“The problem is, the supposed collection of these biological samples occurred before my time, in fact before I was even born.”
- 406
“And was this part of the Lockheed Martin discussion? Or was this completely—the biologics—was it completely separate?”
- 407
“Separate yet related.”
- 408
“Has there been any, to your knowledge, any communication with a nonhuman life form?”
- 409
“So, the term ''communication'' is a bit of a trick word, because there is verbal communication like we are having now; the problem is, you also have nonverbal communication. And so, I would say definitively yes, but from a nonverbal—meaning, when a Russian reconnaissance aircraft comes into U.S. airspace, we scramble two F–22s, and we are certainly communicating intent and capability.”
- 410
“I think the same goes with this. We have these things that are being observed over controlled U.S. airspace, and they are not really doing a good job of hiding themselves. They are making it pretty obvious they have the ability to even interfere with our nuclear equities and our nuclear readiness.”
- 411
“Is the U.S. Government and our contractors, are they pulling, you know, technology from this? Are they reverse-engineering this?”
- 412
“Sir, as I previously stated—and please forgive me—I am not authorized to discuss specifics about crash retrievals. Again, I signed documentation with the U.S. Government. What I can say was, after a very thorough review process by the Pentagon, what I wrote about. And that was my limit, unfortunately, that I was given.”
- 413
“Mr. Elizondo, you just said something interesting. You said, they do not seem to be hiding. They do not seem to be hiding. The UAP sightings are becoming increasingly brash, if you will.”
- 414
“And, you know, we have been hearing about these for years, but they have generally been isolated and not as consistent and over critical military installations. Would you say that's fair? Is this becoming increasingly—is it happening more and more?”
- 415
“Certainly, there seems to be some indication that they are being provocative, meaning that they are in some cases literally splitting aircraft formations right down the middle. So, that is an air safety issue.”
- 416
“The question is, is the frequency increasing? And, really, the response is, it depends. Yes, it is possible that there is an increase in frequency, but it is also possible that there is heightened awareness now, and there is also more pervasiveness of technology out there that is collecting this information and that can record this information.”
- 417
“It seems that a lot of these sightings occur near military installations. Do you think that these UAPs are intentionally targeting military installations, or do you think that we have increased abilities to monitor surrounding military installations?”
- 418
“Sir, it may be both. Part of my concern is, we have something in the Department of Defense and the intelligence community called IPB, initial preparations of the battlespace. And we use equities like ISR—intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance—and other types of equities and technologies to prep the battlespace.”
- 419
“And, certainly, you know, if I was wearing my national security hat, even if there was a two-percent chance that there was some sort of hostile intent here, that is two percent higher than we really can accept.”
- 420
“And so, we must figure out—there is a calculus, capabilities versus intent, in order to identify if something is a national security threat. We have seen some of the capabilities, yet we have no idea on the intent. And so, this is why this discussion is somewhat, I think, problematic from a governmental perspective, because we have no idea.”
- 421
“Mr. Shellenberger, you are particularly familiar with the Langley Air Force Base incident a year ago? Are you familiar?”
- 422
“Just from what I read in the news.”
- 423
“I would imagine a large percentage of the American population became aware of that with the Wall Street Journal article. Would you agree with that?”
- 424
“Yes.”
- 425
“And were you aware of that incident prior to the Wall Street Journal article?”
- 426
“No.”
- 427
“To the rest of the panel, was the Wall Street Journal article the first time that y'all were made aware of what was essentially an over–2-week UAP frenzy over Langley Air Force Base? Were y'all aware of this prior to the Wall Street Journal article? Anybody. A show of hands.”
- 428
“Yes, Dr. Gallaudet. Could you give me your—how did you become aware of it?”
- 429
“Well, a colleague of mine, who I referenced previously, Chris Mellon, he wrote an extensive article about this, that there were other incursions of drones over Langley before this, as well as many, many military installations over the last five decades.”
- 430
“And it is my understanding that there has been an ever-increasing-in-number and—I am trying to think how to say this, because I wear two different hats. I am still in the Air Force. So, I mean, it seems that they are becoming increasingly brash. And the question that we really have to figure out is, is it China or is it nonhuman? And I think that is the biggest question the American people want to know.”
- 431
“If it is China, it is scary because they have a lot of technology that we cannot explain. And if it is nonhuman, that is scary because we do not know the intent.”
- 432
“Would you say that's fair?”
- 433
“Yes, Congressman.”
- 434
“And, in fact, I really believe that we should use this hearing as a catalyst to improve and bolster our air defense capabilities and our maritime domain awareness capabilities, because obviously there are holes in it, whether it be UAP of non-HI direction, or NHI direction, or, as you say, sir, China or any other adversary.”
- 435
“Are y'all aware of any task force at the Pentagon or in the national security apparatus that is trying to assess the answer to that question?”
- 436
“At the current moment, sir, no, but that is a great point. From 2020 to 2022, there was a UAP task force in the DoD succeeding where Mr. Elizondo worked, led by Jay Stratton, who had the first comprehensive, whole-of-government approach to UAP, which involved pathways to declassification and to increased transparency, as well as assessing the national security risk of UAP. This was a really well-established approach, and we have all advocated that something like it return.”
- 437
“I am running out of time. The last thing is that we need authorities. Law enforcement, military do not have authorities to actually engage, and we need to—Congress needs to act to give those authorities to local law enforcement and the military so they have clear guidelines on how to assess these issues going forward.”
- 438
“Law enforcement, military do not have authorities to actually engage, and we need to—Congress needs to act to give those authorities to local law enforcement and the military so they have clear guidelines on how to assess these issues going forward.”
- 439
“Now that we have all been cautioned in this Committee hearing that the mention of Pentagon's Immaculate Constellation program could put us on a list”
- 440
“I think I understand from this hearing that you would agree that classifying information like this is not in the best interests of the people. Is that correct?”
- 441
“Yes, I mean, with the caveat that of course, you know, I would support classification necessary to protect secrets essential to national security. But I think it is pretty obvious that there is overclassification.”
- 442
“President-elect Trump has repeatedly committed to greater transparency both on the UAP issue, on JFK files, on COVID origins and many other things. So, I think that we need to make sure that the next administration is held accountable for that.”
- 443
“Are there any known instances of recovered materials or technologies that are not of human origin and may be connected to any advanced bioscience defense programs within the USG?”
- 444
“I would not be able to answer that, ma'am.”
- 445
“So, there are rumors that have come up to the Hill of a secretive project within the Department of Defense involving the manipulation of human genetics with what is described as ''nonhuman genetic material'' potentially for the enhancement of human capabilities—hybrids. Are any of you familiar with that, yes or no?”
- 446
“I am not, ma'am.”
- 447
“I am not.”
- 448
“No, ma'am.”
- 449
“I would like to know, with Immaculate Constellation, how does this relate to UAP activities, Mr. Shellenberger, in oceanic environments? Are there any instances where the Navy or other maritime forces have encountered UAPs that could not be explained by known technology or natural phenomena?”
- 450
“Yes, the Immaculate Constellation covers both terrestrial and oceanic, and there is actually a number of cases described in the report that occur in the ocean.”
- 451
“And do you believe that there is a concerted effort by the Pentagon to keep Congress out of the loop regarding these UAP activities specifically in our waters?”
- 452
“I think it is about five percent of our ocean that has actually been studied in detail by man, and we have studied more of space than we have of our own oceans.”
- 453
“And so, are there any accounts of UAPs emerging from or submerging into our water, which could indicate a base or presence beneath the ocean's surface?”
- 454
“I do not know about a base, but, you know, as I mentioned, I had a different source entirely describe this pretty extraordinary footage that exists of orbs—of an orb coming out of the ocean and being met by another orb.”
- 455
“Some would say that there is multiple hotspots where we see frequent activity.”
- 456
“So, in your investigations, have you come across any data or visual evidence like sonar readings or underwater footage of these UAPs?”
- 457
“I have not beyond what is in the report.”
- 458
“You have written about UAPs not only in the air but in underwater. Are there any specifics on what you have learned about the UAP activity in our oceans? Particularly, have you spoken with sources who have provided any evidence or eyewitness accounts of these UAPs interacting with our Naval forces or being detected by our underwater surveillance systems?”
- 459
“Nothing beyond what is in the report and then the specific case that I mentioned with the orbs.”
- 460
“So, this report says it all; there is no other information that we are aware of regarding the activity within our waters?”
- 461
“I have other sources that have told me—that have shared a significant amount of information, but they are not comfortable with me sharing it at this point.”
- 462
“Are there any technological capabilities observed in these oceanic UAPs that seem to defy our current understanding of physics or our engineering capabilities?”
- 463
“It seems like they all do.”
- 464
“Yes. I would agree with that. And my time is up, but I do appreciate your bravery, your courage for coming here and speaking today.”
- 465
“And it seems like there is still some questions that we need answers to, and we will not relent until we get those to the American people.”
- 466
“Mr. Elizondo, were you read in to the Immaculate Constellation program?”
- 467
“Ma'am, I would not be authorized to confirm nor deny the existence of any ongoing or past program, especially as it relates to a special access program, either by name or trigraph.”
- 468
- 469
“Let me see if I can answer that a little bit more generally, ma'am, if I may. We do have foreign materiel exploitation programs. That is something that is widely known, and that term itself is unclassified. How exactly that works becomes a bit sensitive. It is a discussion we could certainly have in a closed session if you would like. We do work with international partners and allies quite often, not just in military exercises and workups but in other intelligence efforts as well.”
- 470
“In terms of material, that is given to private contractors, is certain material given to certain contractors because of their experience? So, for example, if it is related to submerged and undersea propulsion, would it go to a general contractor like General Dynamics?”
- 471
“Yes, ma'am, absolutely correct. Different contractors have different levels of expertise——”
- 472
“What is Lockheed's expertise?”
- 473
“Aerospace, ma'am.”
- 474
“And in the UAP space? That is all that—they would not do submerged?”
- 475
“No, I did not say that ma'am.”
- 476
“Lockheed Martin and others do quite a bit of work both in our atmosphere, in space, and even underwater. There are certain efforts to—it is a tough question you are asking. You are putting me on the spot here.”
- 477
“Yes, ma'am. No, they are involved in a lot. I would rather let Lockheed Martin explain the different domains that they are involved with. I am——”
- 478
“A lot of our sensitive R&D locations appear to be under some sort of surveillance and monitoring.”
- 479You followed a link to this statement
“A lot of innovation comes out of those areas. A lot of new technologies, a lot of, if you will, disruptive technologies that we use for our national defense originates out of those locations, and advanced concepts and physics as well.”
- Claim type
- Factual Assertion
- Certainty
- Certain
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- 0.70
- 480
“So, if I was doing any type of reconnaissance, even on a foreign adversary, that is a great target to start with.”
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